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Thread: Ôá ÐÜíôá êáé ôá ÊïÜëá

  1. #101
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Being semiaquatic, I inhabit small streams and rivers Down Under.
    Posts
    173

    Default AKARL: In girum imus musica et consumimur igni

    Ç êïõâÝíôá ìå ôïí Öáßäñï ìå Ýêáíå íá èõìçèþ ôïí ÁÊÁÑË. Ç áëÞèåéá (ôé ëÝîç óå Ýíá ôÝôïéï ðëáßóéï) åßíáé üôé ôïí åß÷á ... îå÷Üóåé.

    Èá áöéåñþóù ëïéðüí óôç ìíÞìç ôïõ ôï áêüëïõèï ôñáãïýäé ôïõ ðïëõáãáðçìÝíïõ ôïõ Peter Hammill ìå ôßôëï Primo on the Parapet.

    O ÁÊÁÑË ëÜôñåõå ôïí ÐÝôñï, åß÷å üëïõò ôïõ ôïõò äßóêïõò ìå êáé ÷ùñßò ôïõò Van der Graaf Generator, åß÷å ðÜåé óå ðÜñá ðïëëÝò óõíáõëßåò ôïõ, ôïí åß÷å ãíùñßóåé êéüëáò...

    Ôï "êáêü", âÝâáéá, ìå ôçí ðåñßðôùóç ôïõ ×Üììéëë åßíáé üôé ç ìïõóéêÞ ôïõ åßíáé êÜðùò ðáñÜîåíç, äåí åßíáé åýêïëç êáé åýëçðôç, ïé óôß÷ïé ôïõ åßíáé "äýóêïëïé" - äåí ðñïóöÝñïíôáé ãéá íá ôïõò óéãïøéèõñßæåé êáíåßò, ç èåìáôïëïãßá ôùí óôß÷ùí åßíáé êáé áõôÞ Ýîù áðü ôç ëïãéêÞ ôçò ìáæéêÞò ðáñáãùãÞò êáôÜ-ðáñáããåëßá "åðéôõ÷éþí", êáé ôÝëïò, ôï ìåãáëýôåñï áìÜñôçìá, äåí Ý÷åé åðáñêÝò êáé ÷ïñôáóôéêü ðåñéå÷üìåíï óôéò éåñÝò ôñåéò ðñþôåò ïêôÜâåò - ïýôå êáé ñõèìéêÞ âÜóç ãéá íá ëéêíßæïíôáé ñõèìéêÜ ôá ïðßóèéá. Ôï ðéï ôñáãéêü üëùí: ïýôå Ýíáò äßóêïò ôïõ åßíáé ðïëõêÜíáëïò, ãéá éììÝñóéâ ïýôå êïõâÝíôá íá ãßíåôáé... Óýìöùíá ìå ôçí "êáììÝíç" "ëïãéêÞ" êÜðïéùí ôï "âßíôáæ", "îåðåñáóìÝíï" "áíá÷ñïíéóôéêü" ... äéêÜíáëï (ù èåÝ ìïõ) ìïõóéêü Ýñãï Üíåõ ÷ïñôáóôéêïý ðåñéå÷ïìÝíïõ óôéò éåñÝò ôñåéò ðñþôåò ïêôÜâåò ðñïöáíþò êáé åßíáé Ýñãï åíüò "êáëëéôÝ÷íç Üíåõ ðåñéå÷ïìÝíïõ", n'est-ce pas?

    Ôá ðáñáðÜíù óáò öáßíïíôáé åîùöñåíéêÜ êáé áðïêõÞìáôá ìéáò íïóçñÞò öáíôáóßáò; ÃåëéÝóôå áãáðçôïß ìïõ. ÔÝôïéåò áêñéâþò åìåôéêÝò áçäßåò ðñïâÜëëïíôáé ùò ... ðñùôïðïñßá, åîÝëéîç êáé åíáôÝíéóç åíüò ãåííáßïõ íÝïõ êüóìïõ áðü ôïõò ðéïíÝñïõò ôçò íÝáò åðï÷Þò êáé ôïõ ìÝëëïíôïò óå äéÜöïñá öüñïõì ôå÷íïëïãßáò Þ÷ïõ êáé åéêüíáò.

    Ìå äõï ëüãéá ëÝíå üôé ç ìïõóéêÞ ôïõ ÐÝôñïõ åßíáé áðïëýôùò áêáôÜëëçëç ãéá ôïõò êÜèå åßäïõò ðïæåñï÷áëéåíôÜäåò êáé ôá ðáíÜêñéâá Þ ôá "õøçëÞò ðéóôüôçôáò" ç÷ïóõóôÞìáôÜ ôïõò. Óå áõôü óõìöùíþ áðïëýôùò ìáæß ôïõò óõìðëçñþíïíôáò üôé áêñéâþò åðåéäÞ assholïýíôáé ìå áõôéóôéêÞ ðñïóÞëùóç áðïêëåéóôéêÜ ìå ôá ðáíÜêñéâá Þ ôá "õøçëÞò ðéóôüôçôáò" ç÷ïóõóôÞìáôá, ôïõò åßíáé áðïëýôùò áäýíáôï íá êáôáëÜâïõí, íá íéþóïõí êáé íá åêôéìÞóïõí ôï Ýñãï êáëëéôå÷íþí üðùò ï ÐÝôñïò, ï Öñáíê, ï ÊáðåôÜíéïò ê.ï.ê. Ôá ðïëëÜ ëåöôÜ ìðïñåß íá áãïñÜæïõí ç÷ïìç÷áíÝò ïé ïðïßåò "âÜöïõí áõãÜ", ç÷çôéêÜ ðåñéðïéçìÝíïõò ÷þñïõò, áêñéâÜ áîåóïõÜñ êáé âåëôéùôéêÜ, õøçëÞ ðéóôüôçôá, óôÜôïõò óýìðïëò ê.ëð. - ÄÅÍ áãïñÜæïõí, üìùò, êáëëéÝñãåéá, áéóèçôéêÞ, ãíþóç êáé áãÜðç ôçò ßäéáò ôçò ìïõóéêÞò - ÁÕÔÁ ÄÅÍ ÐÙËÏÕÍÔÁÉ ÏÕÔÅ ÊÁÉ ÁÃÏÑÁÆÏÍÔÁÉ - èëéâåñïß ðïæåñï÷áëéåíôïêáôáíáëùôÝò...

    ÁõôÜ ðñïóðáèïýóå íá ôïõò ðåé ï ÁÊÁÑË, åéóÜãïíôáò êáéíÜ äáéìüíéá óôï åðéóôçìïíéêþò åõíïìïýìåíï êáôáíáëùôéêü ôóßñêï ôçò ìáôáéïäïîßáò ôïõò. ¶íôåîå üóï Üíôåîå êáé ìåôÜ... ÷Üèçêå. Ãéá ðÜíôá. ¸ôóé áðëÜ.

    Óôç ìíÞìç ôïõ....



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT-54YUKHok



    Primo on the Parapet

    He crawled on hallowed ground without a map;
    he walks on hollow legs, leaving no footprint;
    drifts like a ghost through the quarters of lost desire,
    breathing underwater,
    still running through the fire.

    Four horsemen drive the coach of Holocaust home
    and with what sense of history do we view our bright new world,
    with the video nasty blasting through the set
    of our next door neighbour?
    Do we learn to forget? Do we learn just to forget?

    And raw barbarity sleeps, spore in soil?
    No-one an innocent, no-one entirely immune.
    Still we wait for a saviour, there are no saints as yet.
    Just the guilt of survival,
    we learn to forget.

    The blindest eye is turned on the beast we clothe,
    drab in the uniform of silent acquiescence.
    So I'll raise this toast to Primo, climbing up upon the parapet
    with one final word of caution:
    we must learn not to forget.

    There's pain in remembrance,
    but we must learn not to forget.

    Here's a toast to Primo,
    let's learn not to forget.
    Here's a toast to Primo,
    forgive but don't forget.
    Here's a toast to Primo,
    let's learn not to forget.

    One last word of caution
    from the very rim of the parapet.
    One last word in remembrance...
    we must learn not to forget.
    In the high country of the mind one has to become adjusted to the thinner air of uncertainty...
    Robert M. Pirsig

  2. #102

    Default

    Ç ìüíç ðñïóôéèÝìåíç áîßá ãéá üëïõò ðïõ ìðïñþ íá óêåöôþ åßíáé ôï íá ãßíåôáé åêôåíÞò ðáñïõóßáóç êáé áíÜëõóç ôçò ðïéüôçôáò êáôáóêåõÞò ôùí ìç÷áíçìÜôùí ìïõóéêÞò áíáðáñáãùãÞò óå ó÷Ýóç ìå ôï ðñïóäüêéìï æùÞò êáé áðüäïóÞò ôïõò - ÔÉÐÏÔÅ Üëëï.
    ÅíäéáöÝñïí áõôü... Please elaborate!

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Being semiaquatic, I inhabit small streams and rivers Down Under.
    Posts
    173

    Default Ðåñß ðñïóôéèÝìåíçò áîßáò

    Quote Originally Posted by dStam View Post
    ÅíäéáöÝñïí áõôü... Please elaborate!

    ×ïõëïõóß áêÜñ áãáðçôÝ.

    Áñ÷éêÜ áò ìïõ åðéôñáðåß ç åðéóÞìáíóç ìéáò äõóëåéôïõñãßáò ôïõ öüñïõì. ¼ôáí êÜðïéïò õöáßíåé "óåíôüíé" êÜðïéá óôéãìÞ äéáðéóôþíåé üôé Ý÷åé áðïóõíäåèåß áõôüìáôá. Áõôü Ýðáèá ÷ôåò ãñÜöïíôáò áíáëõôéêÞ áðÜíôçóç ç ïðïßá ÷Üèçêå.

    ÁíáãêáóôéêÜ, åðåéäÞ äåí õðÜñ÷åé ï áíáãêáßïò ÷ñüíïò êáé åðéìïíÞ, èá ðñÝðåé íá áñêåóôþ óå ìéá ìÜëëïí ëáêùíéêÞ áðÜíôçóç.

    Åß÷á ãñÜøåé:

    ìüíç ðñïóôéèÝìåíç áîßá ãéá üëïõò ðïõ ìðïñþ íá óêåöôþ åßíáé ôï íá ãßíåôáé åêôåíÞò ðáñïõóßáóç êáé áíÜëõóç ôçò ðïéüôçôáò êáôáóêåõÞò ôùí ìç÷áíçìÜôùí ìïõóéêÞò áíáðáñáãùãÞò óå ó÷Ýóç ìå ôï ðñïóäüêéìï æùÞò êáé áðüäïóÞò ôïõò - ÔÉÐÏÔÅ Üëëï."

    Ç Ýìöáóç åßíáé áðáñáßôçôï íá öáßíåôáé.

    Ôþñá ðïõ ôï îáíáóêÝöôïìáé ìðïñþ íá óêåöôþ äõï ðåñéðôþóåéò:

    Ðåñßðôùóç Á: áí ùò "üëïé" íïïýíôáé ïé åíåñãþò óõììåôÝ÷ïíôåò áêñïáìáôéêüöéëïé-ìå-ôå÷íïëïãéêÝò-áíçóõ÷ßåò-êáé-åíäéáöÝñïíôá óå Ýíá öüñïõì ðåñß èåìÜôùí audio ôüôå ç äÞëùóÞ ìïõ äåí áíôéêáôïðôñßæåé ôçí ðñáãìáôéêüôçôá, Üñá åßíáé áíáëçèÞò. Óå áõôÞ ôçí ðåñßðôùóç ç ðñïóôéèÝìåíç áîßá ãéá üëïõò ôïõò óõììåôÝ÷ïíôåò äýíáôáé íá áöïñÜ óå êÜèå ôå÷íïëïãéêÞ ðëåõñÜ ôïõ audio.

    Ðåñßðôùóç Â: áí ùò "üëïé" íïïýíôáé ïé Üíèñùðïé ðïõ åðéèõìïýí êáé Ý÷ïõí ôç äõíáôüôçôá íá áêïýíå ìïõóéêÞ ôüôå ç äÞëùóÞ ìïõ áíôéêáôïðôñßæåé ôçí ðñáãìáôéêüôçôá, Üñá åßíáé áëçèÞò. Óå áõôÞ ôçí ðåñßðôùóç ç ìüíç ðñïóôéèÝìåíç áîßá ãéá üëïõò åßíáé ôï íá ãßíåôáé åêôåíÞò ðáñïõóßáóç êáé áíÜëõóç ôçò ðïéüôçôáò êáôáóêåõÞò ôùí ìç÷áíçìÜôùí ìïõóéêÞò áíáðáñáãùãÞò óå ó÷Ýóç ìå ôï ðñïóäüêéìï æùÞò êáé áðüäïóÞò ôïõò - ÔÉÐÏÔÅ Üëëï.

    Ãéáôß óõìâáßíåé áõôü;

    Äéüôé ãéá ôç óõíôñéðôéêÞ ðëåéïíüôçôá ôùí áíèñþðùí (åéêÜæù ü÷é ëéãüôåñï áðü ôï 99,999%) ðïõ åðéèõìïýí êáé Ý÷ïõí ôç äõíáôüôçôá íá áêïýíå ìïõóéêÞ éó÷ýïõí üëåò Þ ïé ðåñéóóüôåñåò õðïèÝóåéò:
    1. ÅíäéáöÝñïíôáé ó÷åäüí áðïêëåéóôéêÜ ãéá ôï ôé áêïýíå (åßäïò ìïõóéêÞò, êáëëéôÝ÷íçò, ê.ëð.) êáé ü÷é ðùò ôï áêïýíå (ôñüðïé, ìç÷áíÞìáôá êáé ìÝèïäïé áíáðáñáãùãÞò),
    2. Äåí Ý÷ïõí, ïýôå åðéèõìïýí íá áðïêôÞóïõí, ïýôå êáé ÷ñåéÜæåôáé íá Ý÷ïõí ôå÷íïëïãéêÝò ãíþóåéò ðñïêåéìÝíïõ íá áðïëáýóïõí ìïõóéêÞ,
    3. Áðïêëåßåôáé íá êáôáâÜëïõí õøçëÜ áíôßôéìá ãéá áðüêôçóç ìç÷áíçìÜôùí Þ äçìéïõñãßá áðïêëåéóôéêþí ÷þñùí áêñüáóçò (áêüìá êáé áí äýíáíôáé ìå åõêïëßá êáé ÷ùñßò íá óôåñçèïýí êÜôé) ðñïêåéìÝíïõ íá áêïýí ìïõóéêÞ,
    4. Ôï ç÷ïóýóôçìÜ ôïõò áðïôåëåß áðëþò ôçí õëéêïôå÷íéêÞ õðïäïìÞ ãéá ôçí áðüëáõóç ôçò ìïõóéêÞò, ôßðïôå Üëëï (äçëáäÞ ïýôå åñãáëåßï ðåéñáìáôéóìïý êáé ç÷çôéêþí áíáæçôÞóåùí, ïýôå ìÝóïí áõôïðñïâïëÞò, ïýôå ìÝóïí ãéá ðñáãìÜôùóç ôùí åðéóôçìïíéêþí áñ÷þí ðïõ äéÝðïõí ôçí õøçëÞ ðéóôüôçôá áíáðáñáãùãÞò),
    5. Åðéèõìïýí áðëþò ôï ç÷ïóýóôçìÜ ôïõò Þ ç "åíéáßá ïíôüôçôÜ ôïõò" (áõôü ÷ùñßò íá ãíùñßæïõí ôïí üñï êáé ôç óçìáóßá ôïõ) íá "áêïýãåôáé" åõ÷Üñéóôá Þ, ôïõëÜ÷éóôïí, ü÷é åíï÷ëçôéêÜ (äåí øÜ÷íïíôáé ãéá "áñéóôïðïéÞóåéò" êÜèå åßäïõò),
    6. Åðéäéþêïõí íá áðïêôÞóïõí Ýíá ç÷ïóýóôçìá ôï ïðïßï íá åêðëçñþíåé ìå áîéïðéóôßá êáé áíôï÷Þ áõôÜ ðïõ èÝëïõí óôç ÷áìçëüôåñç äõíáôÞ ôéìÞ (Þ óå ìéá ôéìÞ åýëïãç ãéá ôçí ðïéüôçôá ôïõ ìç÷áíÞìáôïò ðïõ èÝëïõí íá áãïñÜóïõí).

    ÁõôÞ ëïéðüí ç óõíôñéðôéêÞ ðëåéïíüôçôá üôáí ðñÝðåé íá ðñïâåß óå áãïñÜ åíüò ìç÷áíÞìáôïò ç÷çôéêÞò áíáðáñáãùãÞò:
    • äåí Ý÷åé ôéò áðáñáßôçôåò ãíþóåéò ðñïêåéìÝíïõ íá êÜíåé ôç óùóôÞ åðéëïãÞ,
    • äåí õðÜñ÷åé åýëçðôç êáé åýêïëá ðñïóâÜóéìç ðëçñïöüñçóç (åíþ õðÜñ÷åé Üöèïíç ðáñáðëçñïöüñçóç êÜèå åßäïõò),
    • ç üðïéá áãïñÜ ìå âÜóç ôéò ãíþìåò ãíùóôþí, ößëùí, ðùëçôþí, ìåëþí äéáäéêôõáêþí öüñïõì, ëïãïôå÷íþí ñçâéïýåñò ê.ï.ê. åíÝ÷åé óïâáñü ïéêïíïìéêü ñßóêï.

    Ïðüôå, ñåáëéóôéêÜ ìéëþíôáò, ôé áðïìÝíåé;

    ÅÜí äéáâÜæåé åëëçíéêÜ, êÜíïíôáò Ýñåõíá áãïñÜò, èá åßíáé ôõ÷åñüò áí âñåé ôçí éóôïóåëßäá avmentor.gr üðïõ, åí áíôéèÝóåé ìå ôá éó÷ýïíôá óôïí "÷þñï", èá ìðïñÝóåé íá äéáâÜóåé óïâáñÝò êáé áîéüðéóôåò êñéôéêÝò áîéïëïãÞóåéò ìç÷áíçìÜôùí óõíïäåõüìåíåò áðü ìåôñÞóåéò.

    ¶íôå êáé ôç âñÞêå. Ìðïñåß íá êáôáëÜâåé êáé íá óðïõäáéïëïãÞóåé ôéò ìåôñÞóåéò; ¼÷é. Ìðïñåß íá êáôáëÜâåé ðëÞñùò ôï êåßìåíï êáé ôéò áêïõóôéêÝò åíôõðþóåéò; ÌÜëëïí ü÷é. Ìðïñåß íá âãÜëåé áóöáëÞ óõìðåñÜóìáôá áðü ôçí ðáñïõóßáóç ôùí êáôáóêåõáóôéêþí ÷áñáêôçñéóôéêþí åíüò ìç÷áíÞìáôïò; ¼÷é.

    ÅðéðëÝïí, õðÜñ÷ïõí óôï avmentor.gr êñéôéêÝò áîéïëïãÞóåéò üëùí ôùí ìç÷áíçìÜôùí ðïõ ìðïñåß íá åíäéáöÝñïõí êÜðïéïí; ¼÷é.

    Áöïý ôï æçôïýìåíï, ãéá ôç óõíôñéðôéêÞ ðëåéïíüôçôá ôùí áíèñþðùí ðïõ åðéèõìïýí êáé Ý÷ïõí ôç äõíáôüôçôá íá áêïýíå ìïõóéêÞ, åßíáé íá ðñïâåß ìå ó÷åôéêÞ áóöÜëåéá óôçí áãïñÜ åíüò ìç÷áíÞìáôïò ôï ïðïßï íá åßíáé óýìöùíï ìå ôéò ðñïôéìÞóåéò êáé ôïõò ðåñéïñéóìïýò ôçò êáé íá Ý÷åé áîéüðéóôç ëåéôïõñãßá êáé áíôï÷Þ óôïí ÷ñüíï. Áõôü åíäéáöÝñåé ôç óõíôñéðôéêÞ ðëåéïíüôçôá ôùí áíèñþðùí ðïõ åðéèõìïýí êáé Ý÷ïõí ôç äõíáôüôçôá íá áêïýíå ìïõóéêÞ - ÔÉÐÏÔÅ ÁËËÏ.

    ¶ñá, êáô' áñ÷Üò ìïõ öáßíåôáé êáëÞ éäÝá óôéò êñéôéêÝò áîéïëïãÞóåéò ìç÷áíçìÜôùí óôï avmentor.gr íá õðÜñ÷åé, üðïôå áõôü åßíáé äõíáôü, áíáëõôéêÞ áíáöïñÜ óôá ðïéïôéêÜ êáôáóêåõáóôéêÜ ÷áñáêôçñéóôéêÜ ôá ïðïßá, ceteris paribus, èá ðáñåß÷áí ìéá èåùñçôéêÞ äéáóöÜëéóç ìáêñü÷ñïíçò áðñïâëçìÜôéóôçò ëåéôïõñãßáò.

    Äåýôåñïí, Ýíá æùíôáíü öüñïõì èá ìðïñïýóå íá åßíáé Ýíáò "ôüðïò" üðïõ áõôü ôï èÝìá íá óõæçôåßôáé êáé ï êÜèå åíäéáöåñüìåíïò íá ìðïñåß íá ãßíåôáé áðïäÝêôçò óïâáñþí êáé ôåêìçñéùìÝíùí áðáíôÞóåùí óôá æçôïýìåíÜ ôïõ áíôß íá åßíáé áðïäÝêôçò åéñùíåßáò, êáôÞ÷çóçò êÜèå åßäïõò, ðñïóðÜèåéáò ÷åéñáãþãçóçò, åîõðíáêéóìþí, ê.ï.ê. ÁõôÞ åßíáé ìéá îåêÜèáñç ðñïóôéèÝìåíç áîßá ãéá üëïõò.

    ÁõôÜ ìå ëßãá ëüãéá...


    ÕÃ: êáôÜ ôç äéÜñêåéá ðïõ Ýãñáöá áõôü ôï êåßìåíï Ýãéíáí áõôüìáôá 5-6 áðïóõíäÝóåéò (log out)...
    In the high country of the mind one has to become adjusted to the thinner air of uncertainty...
    Robert M. Pirsig


  4. #105
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    In the high country of the mind one has to become adjusted to the thinner air of uncertainty...
    Robert M. Pirsig

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornithorhynchus Anatinus View Post
    Áêñïáæüìïõí ôéò ðñïÜëëåò ôï Üëìðïõì Hotel California êáé ... ôïõ ïìþíõìïõ ôñáãïõäéïý
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EBQ...manblueChannel


  6. #108
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    In the high country of the mind one has to become adjusted to the thinner air of uncertainty...
    Robert M. Pirsig

  7. #109
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    Being semiaquatic, I inhabit small streams and rivers Down Under.
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    In the high country of the mind one has to become adjusted to the thinner air of uncertainty...
    Robert M. Pirsig


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